Selecting a Legal Entity for Algofi DAO

Proposal:
To move forward with the Temperature Check discussion about registering Algofi DAO, we propose the Algofi Core Developer Team retain and engage legal council on behalf of the DAO in order to present the DAO with the legal entity options (eg UNA, LLC, etc.) and recommended entity type for registering Algofi DAO as a US-based legal entity. The funding to retain council and associated work can be paid from the Algofi treasury, after the cost is presented to the DAO and approved by vote.

A separate proposal, assuming the passage of this one, will be brought to vote later to legally register Algofi DAO based on the information gathered and presented and after the ensuing discussion, but first we shall vote on this proposal to gather information for the DAO so we may make an informed decision.

Why:
Registering Algofi DAO as a legal entity can usher in new economic opportunities and growth by providing rights and benefits to the DAO that are otherwise unavailable, including the right to hold real property, enter agreements and contracts, hire employees, and pay taxes. The same legal entity can also serve to protect the liability of the DAO’s members, investors, and developers.

Are you in favor of the proposal?

  • Yes
  • Yes, but with clarification needed
  • No
  • Undecided

0 voters

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Why a US-based entity? Vs. Singapore?

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Would you be able to enumerate the pros and cons of each for the sake of discussion?

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I suppose that is up for discussion. This is a very important detail legal counsel or an advisor would explain. I proposed US-based entities because I assumed the DAO currently has mostly US membership and/or mostly US activity. If that is the case, the DAO will be best served using a US-based legal entity for many reasons including compliance, taxation, and liability protection. Even if that is not the case, it still may be better to use a US structure for those reasons and because a Foreign Foundation is still accountable to US regulators, but without the clear and well-understood compliance guidance afforded to US entities.

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Yes, here are some notes on the different options from “A Legal Framework for Decentralized Autonomous Organizations” by a16z. Part 2 describes these points in much more detail and offers a guide for DAOs to help select (or not) the appropriate structure.

Part 1
Part 2

Entityless (current state)

  • PRO: max decentralization, autonomy, no governmental interaction, easy membership transferability w/ tokens, members remain anonymous, permitted distribution of profits
  • CON: unable to establish legal existence, inability to pay taxes, potential for unlimited liability for members, cannot hold real property, cannot sue

All of the legal entities mentioned below solve the three big challenges for DAOs with some additional and unique advantages (PRO) and disadvantages (CON).

  1. Legal existence (own property, enter contracts, hire employees, ability to sue and be sued),
  2. Clear guidance and method for US taxation,
  3. Member liability protection

Unincorporated Nonprofit Associations (UNA)

  • PRO: decentralization, easy membership transferability w/ tokens, members remain anonymous, permitted distribution of profits
  • CON: may not be tax optimized depending on state chosen to register

Foreign Foundation

  • PRO: tax advantage, easy membership transferability w/ tokens, members remain anonymous, permitted distribution of profits
  • CON: complicated, costly to implement, international transfer of IP, significantly reduces decentralization, still beholden to US regulators if significant US membership/activity

Limited Liability Companies (LLC)

  • PRO: well-understood tax treatment, quick and cheap to set up, membership transferability, permitted distribution of profits
  • CON: membership may be treated as a security, some limits on membership anonymity, some disclosures may hinder decentralization (required reporting of bank account details, smart contract addresses, and other DAO management details)

Limited Cooperative Associations (LCA) - limitation on member anonymity so not advisable

Agreed. Seems most are undecided because of a lack of information/clarity?

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Thanks for sharing the a16z documentation, I’ve gone ahead and given both documents a full read. After reading the doc, my takeaway are the biggest risks to manage are tax liabilities, legal liability, and securities law. Based on that, my gut is that we should go with a UNA. tl;dr is that we can structure a UNA in a way to insulate BANK holders from legal and tax hurdles.

Off the bat, I think we need to pay our taxes. I raised a discussion about Treasury Assets and there are already a $250K in the treasury. If Algofi is successful, that number will only continue to grow. Avoiding taxation is going to make any DAO with substantial amounts of capital a target. If we continue Entityless, there does not seem to be a great way to enable individuals to fulfill the tax obligations incurred by the treasury. Not paying taxes is just putting a target on our back from governments. I don’t feel tax optimizing the jurisdiction is worth it because the report validly brings up that if enough citizens are involved with a DAO and the tax losses are large enough, governments will try to intervene anyway.

Legal liability is a lesser concern to me at the moment because we aren’t handling real world assets or entering into contracts with other organizations at the moment. Maybe the desire for that will change in the future, but at the moment I don’t see apparent risks where holders are worried about being sued.

Securities law is the other elephant in the room. The SEC is ramping up their campaign. Realistically I think any project trying to disperse project revenue via a governance token is going to eventually run afoul of securities law.

it’s dicta, but here the LBRY judge reasons that even if team is completely silent about efforts–no promises, no contracts–but premines tokens, that alone creates a sufficient expectation of profits from their efforts in common enterprise to pass the Howey test

Even if LBRY never said a word about it being an investment…by retaining hundreds of millions of LBC for itself, LBRY also signaled that it was motivated to work tirelessly to improve the value of its blockchain for itself and any LBC purchasers…would lead purchasers of LBC to expect that they too would profit from their holdings of LBC as a result of LBRY’s assiduous efforts.

I don’t believe this dooms every token in existence. As long as a purchaser of the BANK token, does not have reason to believe that holding it would lead to profits based on others’ efforts, it isn’t a security. I believe we can accomplish that by taking the following steps:

  • Using treasury funds to register a UNA in a jurisdiction that will not run afoul of US and EU regulation
  • The purpose of the legal entity is solely to pay the DAOs taxes
  • BANK holders can vote via smart contract on how much incoming revenue is diverted to the legal entity’s wallet for tax payments. This is to be forward looking against rate changes.
  • All remaining treasury revenue is rebalanced into Algo <-> Bank LPs and STBL2 <-> USDC LPs
  • The split between the LPs and which LPs are voted on by BANK holders
  • The only mechanism to extract LP tokens from the treasury is in the event of a “Black Thursday” type of event, where the price of collateral drops so fast that STBL2 becomes uncollateralized or lenders of other tokens can’t be made whole. The LP tokens would be sold to insure against losses.

In the above system, holders of BANK would have no mechanism to disperse the treasury to themselves, so there would be no expectation that holding the token would ever entitle one to any of Algofi’s revenue. Algofi would buy Bank <-> Algo LP simply to stabilize the price, to ensure participation in governance. If Bank is constantly losing value it could threaten participation in the DAO which would threaten Algofi operating. In a perfect world whre the insurance is never necessary, BANK would just be pegged to Algo given a deep enough pool. So buying bank as an investment would be silly when you could just buy Algo. The treasury also has to hold something else other than STBL2 based LPs because STBL2 might unpeg if a “Black Thursday” like crash happened.

I like the above because it creates a legal entity responsible for paying taxes, so individuals only have to worry about capital gains in their local jurisdiction. There is some opportunity for tax optimization if 501c status could ever be acquired. People in the DAO wouldn’t need to be doxxed. The treasury is allocated in such a way that ideally prevents BANK from being interpreted as a security, and as a bonus might limit speculators. The main purpose of BANK should be to participate in making Algofi work sustainably, not pumps. I also like this because Algorand governance itself is run by a US based foundation, while development is controlled by a private company. The dev team took VC investment so they already have a legal entity. Matching what Algorand Foundation/Inc does creates some nice ecosystem alignment.

Happy to discuss, by no means saying this is 100% right but this is where my head went after reading all the documentation. I had an idea, thought I’d through spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks. Rip it apart guys.

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Yes, I agree a UNA seems to be the right structure to use, which is a reason I took a step back in this proposal from my original post. You do a good job highlighting the compliance issues at hand, and I think your rationale for wrapping treasury management as a UNA is very good… which counsel could confirm. In my opinion, doing this would be the minimal step to take toward regulatory compliance and liability protection for BANKers.

While I agree compliance and protection are key benefits, I’m afraid by limiting the legal entity to treasury management (paying taxes, etc.) we may deprive ourselves of the benefits of contracting and owning real property. I’m not certain to what degree it would limit, or whether it may be worth doing so, but something to consider and debate. Again, counsel would be helpful here.

A couple real-world examples on my mind that may be at stake:

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I’m glad to see this discussion growing.

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Understood @jaclarke and sounds reasonable. Might I propose some action items to

  • Establish a deadline to have a proposal around this published for BANK holders to discuss
  • I know in another thread a treasury analytics page was mentioned to be in the works, could that expose the required data to compute potential tax liabilities? Essentially some way to export a log of transactions so that its possible to compute when a gain was realized.
  • Publish the dev team’s legal entity and jurisdiction somewhere easy to access. If it already is that’s on me
  • Put out a survey in a few weeks to get a feel for BANK holder preferences. Are they open to being doxxed? do they prefer to handle their own taxes? what jurisdictions are they in? risk tolerance? I figure that would save you some time in crafting a proposal if you already have an idea of what the group wants to see.
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I understand and thank you @jaclarke, I appreciate your and the team’s attention to this issue. I strongly believe it is something to prioritize but I recognize its complexity and importance, so I’m glad to take a methodical approach. I also recognize the team has other issues and priorities to address, which I wholeheartedly appreciate. After all, I am here because of the team and product you’ve built so far, so thank you all.

Considering the votes today, it appears more clarity and information is needed, so let’s continue the discussion and refine the proposal accordingly. I trust the team will add their input, believe the @pescennius action items are a reasonable start, and continue to welcome all questions and suggestions that help our progress toward selecting the appropriate legal entity for Algofi. Thank you!

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Ultimately, individuals are responsible for filing their personal taxes. What are you suggesting here?

Really its about if they want the DAO to attempt to pay taxes or to try to pass that additional liability to members on top of whatever tax liabilities they have to deal with themselves. My understanding of an LLC is that the LLC’s income would be personal income for all unit holders.

I am completely in favor of having a legal structure for governance. I would like to point out that some states in the US recognize the status of a LLC DAO (at least Wyoming). I am not super concerned with the tax issues since as a LLC tha DAO should not generate profits unless some protocol revenues are distributed but I do not know if that would be legal regarding SEC regulation

100% all for establishing some kind of legal entity that bears responsibility for taxes & enables liability protection. Reading through the thread, UNA seems to be the clear choice. Glad you’re talking with legal council.

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Lofty has been converting their individual properties from LLCs to DAO LLCs. I believe one of the benefits was anonymity. Under a traditional LLC all members could be disclosed, but DAO LLCs protect the anonymity of individual wallets that are members of the DAO.

In the future, I suspect that there will be many wallet centric SaaS companies delivering on DAO operations.

Long story short, I think a DAO LLC based in Wyoming or Delaware would be a great proposal.

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Maybe we can wait a bit and see if the EU recognizes DAOs as legal entities.

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Finland’s communication minister probably has very little influence on EU wide policy. Any broad regulatory move like this will be years in the making. If we start hearing a head of state from Germany, France, or maybe Italy that would be different. Also, the dev team has already stated they’ll be bringing in outside legal counsel. They will have the best insight into what might be potentially worth waiting for.

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I think these little technologically advanced countries like Finland, Estonia etc. Will make these policies to go thru. Germany has already lost its credibility. And probably Italy and France do not have any reason to oppose these new legal forms. But yes, it will take years and that can be a good thing.
Algofi is still small player and should let bigger ones to take first steps in legislative front. Maker will probably settle in UK, and Aave in UK or Estonia.
It is great if some US states already recognizes DAOs, but how these are treated other parts of the world? Algofi operates in international landscape and in financial sector.
I fear that rushing under umbrella of legal form will bring many downsides. When you have legal form, it is easier to authorities to categorize (US, EU and so on).
First, is DAO only decision making organism? If so, is dev team only tech branch of this concern? (Inseparable from each other?) And many cases practice will override legal form. Especially if legal form is not recognized in that country which tries to form an understanding of Algofi/AlgofiDAO.
Does AlgofiDAO offer financial services, custodial services or is it exchange? After all they are the decision making organism. (Again corporate structure?) Can argue that yes to all of those. Algofi hold deposits, so offers custodial services to user funds, not third party. Swap function → exchange and borrow & lend → financial services. Now this leads easily situation where have to have a licence to offer these kind of services. Minimum capital requirements, reporting, KYC, GDPR, MiFiD 1 & 2 and so on. Greater the legal exposure, the greater the risks are. So I think we should wait and see how legislative landscape forms. And I think this will happen quite fast.
But in overall, I think it is good thing to have legal entity eventually, but just not yet.
Also acting now can bring pitfalls. you can not always change your legal form from B to A. Only A to B. So if we now have legal form and in the near future (within next 5 years) DAOs will be recognized internationally, it can be impossible to change form afterwards. (If already legal form is DAO then this problem maybe disappears). Or can be really hard to do so.
Also have to keep in mind that Algofi operates internationally offering financial services to all and adding DAO into this equation will only make things more complicated.
And what are the benefits if Algofi DAO has legal entity. Nothing significant.
So I think risks greatly outruns benefits right now.

My intention is not to oppose this in general, and I like the idea, but I think it is too early to do so. So questiong is, should we do this now or wait a little bit?

But if this is already put in practice, then I hope legal counsel will find suitable way to do this :slight_smile:

These are great questions, some of them I’d be curious for the dev team to answer.

Algofi is still small player and should let bigger ones to take first steps in legislative front.

The dev team has already shared that it is a roadmap item to decentralize governance and launch a legal foundation by summer.

It is great if some US states already recognizes DAOs, but how these are treated other parts of the world? Algofi operates in international landscape and in financial sector.

This is a challenge no matter where you settle legally. Just because the legal entity is in say Finland doesn’t mean the US government won’t exercise jurisdiction over US citizens. Added to this is that the dev team is a registered US company.

I fear that rushing under umbrella of legal form will bring many downsides. When you have legal form, it is easier to authorities to categorize (US, EU and so on).

I don’t think its really easier. Not having a legal entity didn’t protect the Tornado Cash dev. Besides, if the DAO had no entity, the government can still just sue the Dev team because they are an legal entity.

Does AlgofiDAO offer financial services, custodial services or is it exchange?

Legally speaking, that’s outside my expertise to answer.

Algofi hold deposits, so offers custodial services to user funds, not third party.

Actually it doesn’t, that’s the whole point. Nobody has a master key to deposits. They are all held via smart contracts which have no controller except the wallet that executed the contract. That doesn’t mean that regulators don’t end up deciding to regulate a lending platform’s DAO as a Bank one day, but its better to let lawyers speculate on where regulation is headed.

Now this leads easily situation where have to have a licence to offer these kind of services. Minimum capital requirements, reporting, KYC, GDPR, MiFiD 1 & 2 and so on.

But those regulations in the US at least primarily apply to Money Services Businesses and those only apply when dealing with US dollars. That’s why so many CEXs can operate without KYC, because they facilitate dollar transactions using primarily Tether. This is why DEXs don’t require KYC either. That is all liable to change in ways that are hard to predict. Until we have crypto specific regulation, most projects are operating somewhat conservatively and banking on adapting to changing circumstances.

you can not always change your legal form from B to A.

Establishing a legal entity now doesn’t prevent you from changing direction with regulation. Maker dissolved its foundation for example.

My intention is not to oppose this in general, and I like the idea, but I think it is too early to do so. So questiong is, should we do this now or wait a little bit?

As I started off with, the Dev team seems to have already scheduled this to happen. So I don’t know how much room there really is to debate about it.

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Thank you for your reply.

just wanted to raise my concerns about this matter, but if this is already scheduled to happen, then hopefully they will find a decent way to go and are able to navigate thru all the regulations.

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